The Devil ...,
Linked to Vagabond...
Mailing image from the monastic church of Decani. Perhaps you can scan it for your net-site. The image accompanies the 20th stanza of the Akathistos, sung during Lent. Ora pro nobis does not occur in it, because the hymn is an evocation of the Virgin. I could send you the Greek, Slavonic and English text of the introduction, which is a later addition and is more in the keeping with a Te Deum. However, a simple Latin text might be better understood, whatever the philological accuracy. Not many people over here understand Greek or Slavonic.
I believe I also have a slide in colour, if you could use it. The first singer (domestikos) has a blue hat and robe with gold trim. The second domestikos has a red robe.***
Found excellent response on the net. It is from Julie Burchill of London, England.
"It (Serbia) is a country that fought off the Nazis, held off the Soviets and bent the knee to no one ... What are the Serbs supposed to be doing to the Kosovars? Are they putting electrodes on their genitals? Dropping them from helicopters? Torturing children in front of their parents? Like all the Latin American regimes the US has been installing and maintaining since the Year Dot?"
The US has only one aim -- setting up Starbucks, McDonalds and Chapters Books in downtown Belgrade with a monster Walmarts on the outskirts of the city.***
Talking to some people in the library, I am amazed how they have
become experts on the Balkans after learning the word "Kosovo" just a
month ago. They are adamant about the massacres and accept the NATO
propaganda without a thought, not realizing this propaganda is
intended to brace up those hashish smoking, sun-tanning marines in the
Adriatic whose sole exercise is pushing the buttons releasing the
missiles. How quickly they have forgotten how the public was
manipulated during the Vietnam war.
Gene Clark's letters (continuation from the last issue's Communication Page).:
Whether the body is Serbian or Albanian makes no difference. That anyone could kill a small child or baby is completely alien to a normal thought process. It is people such as yourself that by rationalizing these murders make it possible for the insane acts to continue.
I 'rationalise killing a child or baby' -- where did you read those horrors? What's your agenda? WM* * *
By agreeing with the Serbian government, you agree with their policy of the forced removal of the Albanian and of the methods the Serbian government is using to accomplish that removal, or ethnic cleansing as it is reported in the media. That anyone could side with that type of "government" is unbelievable. While the US is not innocent of these types of actions we have moved beyond the use of brutality to accomplish our civic roles. We no longer kill innocent people simply because they are different in some subtle manner. Bombing the Serb military is not the same as killing civilians. My agenda is simple. I am a Vietnam veteran, having spent 3 combat tours with the US Marine Corps. Before you jump at that I must tell you that I was a Navy Hospital Corpsman on duty with the Fleet Marine Force, 3rd marine Division. I flew over 100 hours of MediVac, have 3 Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and several other decorations. I understand the difference between warfare and genocide.
Before I go, I must state that I really do not know your position on this
matter other than from what I read on the Internet. If I have misunderstood
your position then I apologize.
It is not a matter of the Serbian government against the Albanian population but a matter of populations against populations; of ethnic cleansing back and forth all over the Balkans for hundreds and hundreds of years. You can't stop the clock of history at will and pinpoint with your finger one particular case and one particular time. Each of those populations, except the Serbs, found foreign protectors to defend their cause and the consequent ethnic cleansing. While the Croats and the Muslims have always had somebody to either back them or use them for domination of the region, the Orthodox Serbs have had to stand alone because they had no allies except perhaps the Greeks who have their own troubles. The far away Russians gave mostly lip service to the Serbs and before the First World War, for political reasons, they gave the Hapsburgs a free pass to do what they wanted in the Balkans. It's almost a miracle that between the Muslim and Austro-Hungarian masters the Serbs have survived up to our century. Please remark that in the Balkans now, only Yugoslavia, Macedonia, continental Greece, have multiethnic societies coexisting in peace while Croatia and Bosnia are completely cleansed and nobody gives a damn because the cleansed are Serbs. As for Macedonia, let's not forget that this country is practically occupied by Allied Forces with no end in sight. Is this a solution to ensure ethnic coexistence? This would confirm the NWO leitmotif inherited from pre WWI 'Hapsburg Order', that the Balkans are unfit for independence and must be under somebody's boot. Do you really buy it?
Don't look at the prostitute media versions of history but, for instance, at encyclopedias which are as distanced from politics as possible. You will see there that the Serbs never had a drive for ethnic 'purity' and didn't reach for territories which were not historically theirs. The notion of 'Greater Serbia' is nonsense. What happens now in Kosovo is a political fight to preserve the ancestral land within Serbia. Nobody who knows denies the political and historical fact that the Albanians in Kosovo, in becoming a bold majority initiated their own cleansing to get rid of Serbs. The most recent attempt provoked Milosevic's withdrawal of autonomy. Of course this was not a solution but THEN what is the good solution? The media simply and conveniently avoid the topic.
By the way, I didn't mention Slovenia which has an ancestral Serbian population that came there escaping the Turks 500 years ago. Until now they were coexisting in harmony and I never heard a case of a pogrom against Serbs in Slovenia..
Coming back to the precise topic of the painful image of the flood of refugees. Probably, because they are only 10 percent, you would prefer that the Serbs just go away and leave the Albanians alone. If Milosevic gave up Kosovo, Serbs there would escape in a mass as they did in Krajina (250,000 in 4 days). Kosovo will be as cleansed of Serbs as Poland is cleansed of Jews, or even more. The only way to avoid this would be, perhaps, cantonization but you know that nobody, but nobody, wants to negotiate with Serbs. Rambouillet was not negotiation but ultimatum; the world has its own vivisection program for Serbs. You are a soldier, how would you limit total war to the armies only with no consequences for civilian populations. WM* * *
........... I will tell you that I have read, and re-read an article by Tony Snow concerning the situation in Kosovo and it was an eye opener. I still dislike violence against children.
One thing I would retract is my remark about encyclopedias being distanced from politics. Recently I read a Coles Concise Encyclopedia entry (Serbs) that "Expansionist policy led to Balkan Wars (1912-13), conflict with Austria led to WW1." Gavrilo Princip killed the Archduke Ferdinand; are those who kill foreign invaders 'expansionists?' Were the Czechs who killed Gauleiter Heidrich 'expansionists?' Were the Warsaw Ghetto fighters, the Warsaw Uprising fighters, 'expansionists?' Another encyclopedia, in French or English, I don't remember because it was a while ago, defines anti-Semitism as the attitude of those 'who are against Jewish domination of the world.' Is this a definition of anti-Semitism? Encyclopedias, like other sources of information, are infected with personal agendas. Comparing all the agendas and forming your own opinion is the only way to dig into the facts. WM* * *
You are correct about the history of that region. They have been cleansing one another for hundreds of years and Clinton can not stop that no matter how many bombs he chooses to drop. I think we are arguing the same side of the issue. I do not think any nation or person should be allowed to murder children (people) for any reason. On the other hand, Clinton is responsible for starting the enforced migration of the Albanian in Kosovo. Had he listened to his military advisors none of this mass exodus would be occurring. What he should have done is to isolate Serbia politically and physically. Actual he should have done nothing. Arming the KLA would be an option, not a good one, but an option. The KLA is on the State Department list of terrorist organizations but they would have at least prevented some of the killings and protect their people.
The Serbs are already isolated and the KLA is an aggressive armed force fighting for independence, not a defensive organization. The Serb minority was more in need of protection than the Albanians. Near the end of an article in the New York Times (April 5, 1999) I found this:
"Refugees these days describe the Serbian military as an all-powerful killing machine. But Mr. Bolt, a British policeman [human rights monitor], portrayed them -- at least until his evacuation -- as scared and undisciplined, patrolling K.L.A.-infiltrated areas around Suva Reka like 'cornered rats.'" Even the NYT cannot hide everything, but this kind of information is always diluted or placed at the end.
Remember that bombing preceded mass exodus not vice versa. The primary objective of the bombing was to force Yugoslavia to accept a peaceful invasion of Yugoslav territory by NATO forces -- have you ever heard of a country that accepted a peaceful invasion? The ultimate goal of the invasion was to give Kosovo to the Albanians as NATO's gift; had the Serbs accepted, they would be cowards, a laughing stock among nations. Vojvodina, Sandjak would be next on the list to be lost for Yugoslavia.
I repeat, the Albanians in Rambouillet signed a gift to themselves. The Serbs would have been signing their own death sentence. WM* * *
William, I agree completely with regards to the KLA and the Serbian army. I also agree that the United States has no business bombing and/or invading Serbia. There are much more humane and saner ways to deal with the "ethnic cleansing" on either side. It sort of reminds me of the NAACP and KKK battles the US had in the Deep South. What would our position have been had Mexico or Canada decided to interject themselves into our little fight. Yes, our bombing started the reaction by Serbia. No bombing, no exodus, no refugees, no major conflict. My own personal opinion is that Clinton is once again trying to divert the nation's attention from something. We should have isolated the entire area from the world until they decided to act like civilized peoples. We seem to have a policy of " if you can not make them conform to our norms then kill them". Had Serbia or Kosovo had a resource or service that we needed I am sure the results would have been entirely different.
Still, the small children always seem to pay the price for our stupidity. I know I keep coming back to that but I saw so much suffering on their part in Vietnam and will never get those images out of my mind.
.....I must say that I think the press often does more then report the news, they attempt to modify or create the news. The news media here in the US is visibly upset because they do not have total freedom to report and reveal all that is occurring in Kosovo. Driving them crazy!
Thanks to the Internet I am able to hear many different views and to form my
own opinions instead of what ABC, NBC, and CBS would like me to believe.
Appears the wishbone has gotten larger. This a.m. Russia upped the ante with the threat of re-targeting war heads our way. As if they had ever untargeted them! It appears the world is going mad. I think that because of the "millennium" scare people (countries) are developing a "devil may care attitude" and are taking risk that they would normally avoid. After all, the world will end at midnight on January 1st, right?
You are correct in that this "cleansing" has gone on for hundreds of years and will not stop simply because of the NATO intervention. If the world is around in fifty years it may be the Kosovoians (sp) turn to cleanse the Serbians. Why are Turkey and Germany so quiet with regards to this conflict? I think that we both desire the same results, i.e., NATO out and no more bloodshed but for different reasons. .....I feel that people, and governments, should mind their own business, live and let live. It has to stop some time. A great many people are dying for no good cause, lives that might have been needed by the world. Think of all the possible scientists, composers, doctors, etc, etc, that will never be.
Have you ever been involved in combat or something similar? When ever I was
around the bodies I always felt embarrassed. I always told God that it was
not my fault, that I tried to save them. I was afraid that God would blame
me for the death. I was a combat medic. It was always so embarrassing to see
the many ways we could kill each other. A human body is so heavy. Perhaps I
am being idealistic but I really hate armed conflict of any nature. If a
foreign government were to invade my nation then I would fight to protect my
family and our freedom, (here's your "in"), but would not invade another
country. Such a waste on both sides.
Gene -- If wars were first of all humanitarian then there wouldn't be an intertwining of killing and sacrifice. I don't know one single case in history where a country benevolently agreed to lose a war. The Geneva Convention can only alleviate and not eradicate the merciless requirements of military considerations. WM* * *
"The Mouse that Roared" springs to mind. Would that all wars were as nice as that.
I have no objection to grown "adults" killing one another if they so choose. That is why it is called the "armed forces", because they are in the business of killing. I spent 12 years with the Marine Corps and that was our purpose in life, to take life. I regret some of what I did but not all. It is the "collateral" damage that I object to. I understand that the Serb army has taken many of the Albanian women to a camp for the purpose of rape and brutality. What does that have to do with territorial expansion? Seems to me that the Serbs are shooting themselves in the foot. By brutalizing the women and children they appear to the world as non-humans. Does matter which side you take, wrong is wrong.
..........You are correct about the media but then I have always been a firm critic of
the media, every since my days in Vietnam. They report their version of the
news with one thought in mind and that is to sell the story and make as much
money as possible or to gather in as much fame as possible. The US public
has always been lied to and no one here seems to care anymore.
As far as the media and the stories of rape and mass graves we'll just have
to wait until all the facts are in. The only thing we know for sure is that
people are disappearing. Where and why only time will tell. Does not look
good for Serbia or Milosevic. Both are losing the PR war as well as the
bullet war. I must admit that it
Gene -- consider the sources. Those storytellers lost all credibility precisely because they won the propaganda war led by masters of deception. The Serbs don't have a PR tradition. Five hundred years of Turkish occupation made most of their grandfathers illiterate peasants. I recommend that you read 'City vs Country in Serbia,' April 97 issue. Also read, 'Serbs & Jews,' May 98 issue.
We don't "know for sure that the people are disappearing." It always comes from the same sources, and how will you discern if the professional liars tell the truth or not? There are three possibilities: 1. they've actually disappeared, 2. if they are of fighting age they may be in the KLA training camps in Albania, 3. Perhaps they didn't disappear at all. How can you check?
The story about herding of thousands of Albanians into the stadium in Pristina came out as a hoax. Several ethnic Albanian leaders were reported to be executed -- they turned up alive. The "rape camps"? Why believe this. The rape camp story in Bosnia fizzled out too. Over fifty thousand rapes were reported there and only seven, I believe, accepted to testify.
This is mostly a PR war and PR is deciding its outcome. One million refugees are in Serbia, mostly Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia but among them thousands of Bosnian Muslims and Albanians. They are totally ignored by the Western media and aid groups and sanctioned Serbia has to take care of them.
If the Serbs cease to exist it will not be through the hidden methods Nazis used with the Jews, but openly with the howling approval of the world mob. History is taking a completely new turn and other victims may follow. WM
So what is this a holy war with Christians against Muslims. A Class war rich
against poor? Why are they fighting?
'Why' is a long story, it's History. The easier question to ask is: 'Who is the aggressor?' Obviously it's NATO because they promised the Albanians 'pears on the willows' (a Polish saying): 'Don't take the negotiations with the Serbs seriously; we'll wipe them out soon:' -- and now they put Albanians' suffering on display. This is not a war for the sake of Albanians. I invite you to read "Bombing for Albanians' Sake" in the April issue of Vagabond. WM
Is your heritage Serbian?
It isn't. I am writing mostly about Serbs because the situation demands focus on the Serbs. This is now first of all, a Serbian problem. In the broader perspective I consider that dooming the Serbs is the first step toward the final decision for the Balkans 'en bloc.' What can be more dooming for the Balkan nations than to submit them to the German/Turkish partition? WM
It seems to me that the Serbs are the new Fascists. In my opinion Milosevic should be
tried, and if convicted, killed. In my opinion all Serb soldiers who
have served in Kosovo are murderers and criminals and should be tried in
absentia and executed on sight.
You sound very categorical. Does watching TV give enough information to make a judgment? In this you are like those judges at the Hague who (unlike at Nuremberg) gather almost exclusively one-sided testimonies with almost no objective evidence. No court in the world could afford to operate on that basis. Yes, we recently saw pictures of corpses, but again -- who filmed them? 'An Albanian peasant;' how do you know it is true? Because he says it? I don't deny that those accusations MAY be true, but I repeat again and again: we cannot go back to the days of lynching when they were fast to condemn and execute. People take the intensity of the horror for its proof, as in the days of lynching and witchhunts. It works very well on an emotional level, for PR, but not at the judicial level. I don't remember who was the author of the words: 'the world asks to be cheated.'
Apparently the atrocities and ethnic cleansing against Serbs never happened. WM
so almost a million Albanians leave Kosovo because of rumors? so the
testimony of eyewitness after eyewitness is a rush to judgment? so it's
just a small number of Serbs who are doing this? (bullshit!).
watching TV does qualify me to make a judgment. this is a repeated pattern. it matches what happened in Bosnia. is this a coincidence?
are the Serbs exacting revenge? who cares. we see the results; that is all that counts!
why won't the slob accept peace terms?
whose axe are you grinding?
Seeing is believing and we see countless masses of refugees. We know that they suffer but it doesn't take massacres to make a population leave. A simple given order is enough. Personally, if I were an Albanian civilian with family in Kosovo I would run for my life. Kosovo may soon be one of the big butchery places in History, as it was in 14th century and I wouldn't like to be caught in the crossfire between Serbs, KLA and NATO. Or perhaps NATO, faithful to its tradition, from a safe bombing distance would watch how the Serbs and the KLA kill each other....
The refugees have no interest in depicting their enemies nicely. Who were the dead bodies presented by a self-appointed "Albanian peasant"? Maybe he is one, or maybe he's a KLA officer who took off his uniform. Do you know many peasants in remote regions who are excellent photographers? I repeat, I don't categorically reject this as evidence, I just put in doubt whether it is true or not. The allies could have alleviated the refugee situation almost immediately, they have all technical and material potential but they need the psychological advantage of keeping their suffering on display in order to justify their next steps against the Serbs..
You talk about Bosnia; I expand on this topic in my answer to Brad Klapper below, who writes specifically about Bosnia and which I invite you to read. Few now believe that the Markale massacre was done by the Serbs; no political or military advantage whatever for them. But the Allies without looking farther used it as a pretext to make the Serbs lose the Bosnian war. I don't dig for what the Serbs keep in their hearts. The only thing that counts for me is that they are indeed fighting for their survival.
I don't want to keep assessing the degree of atrocities committed on each side As Juliusz Slowacki wrote: "Don't contemplate roses while the forests burn." The life of each individual is important; so is the life of nations.
Whose axe am I grinding? -- In other words how did I wake up from the world's hypnosis? In order not to make my answer here longer and heavier I write about it in this issue. WM
Just taking a study break and looked over your page. It beats reading my mundane, conservative textbook. Keep it up.
Question: If preventing genocide is the official US policy, where are we in East Timor? I guess there are too many vested interests to embark on a bombing campaign in Indonesia.
When asked about the situation in East Timor, a local House Republican replied, "I don't know too much about that." All this, while, a bill that would have limited the sale of weapons to the belligerent Indonesians labored about for six months in a House committee he was a member of.
Where is the media? Where is the US? Where are the bombs?
In a past article entitled "Are The Serbs Doomed To Extinction," you claim that Bosnian Muslims abandoned their Serbian roots by converting to Islam. By what are you justifying this statement. The Serbs are not inherently a Christian people, and it was not until the 8th or 9th century that the majority of Serbs converted to Christianity. Thus, by your definition, these people were also guilty of abandoning their "Serbian roots" by leaving their traditional paganism for Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy.
Also, you repeatedly refer to Bosnians as Turks. This is a form of Christoslavism, where you automatically assume that anyone who lives in the region and is not a Christian, they are elements of another nation. These people are Serbs as well. They are connected by common linguistic and historical traditions. Religious conversion does not alter the biological framework of a people, nor does it immediately "Turkify" them and change their nationality.
Perhaps this is too critical and you are just lax with your terminology. But unfortunately, these justifications are too often employed to label Bosnian Muslims as "the other." By such means, the atrocities that have been committed were condoned/supported by so many.
PS - Writing a research paper on the Croatian death camp at Jasenovac. Do you know of any exceptional sources on Croatian history that you could refer me to? Thank you very much.
Brad -- Very often when the invaders convert the defeated, their influence is not limited only to the religion but also integrate the converted ones into the frame of the invaders' identity. In the case of the Serbian Muslims, they didn't lose their language which remains Serbo-Croatian but they totally embraced their new masters' interests. They had the privilege of remaining in the cities while the Christian Serbs were chased to the hills and villages, becoming farmers. The new Muslims became the masters of the Christian Serbs often with a cruelty that surpassed the Turks themselves. They also grabbed children from the Christians, converting them to Islam, and so the famous 'Janissaries' were created. They called themselves 'gentlemen' and called the Christians, 'hillbillies' ('papa'). After WWI Bosnia became part of Yugoslavia as historically it was part of the Serbian Kingdom before the invasions started. As far as I know, the Serbs never took revenge but coexisted pacifically with the Muslims between the two wars. After the Nazi invasion, with the blessing of the Great Mufti of Jerusalem the Muslims embraced the Nazi cause. The Muslim SS finished the Jews of Bosnia. As for the Christian Serbs, they went from majority to minority in Bosnia because of mass extermination. In many families only one male infant was permitted to survive so there were hundreds, perhaps thousends of Christian Serbs who grew up without seeing a man in the family. After the war, Tito, in the name of national reconciliation protected the Muslims from any Christian Serbian revenge. After the recent Balkan War when Bosnia became independent and partitioned into Muslim and Serbian sides, the Christian Serbs lost twenty five per cent of their territory to the Muslims. Like all peasants, they had more territory than the city dwellers. Now the Serbs refuse to merge with the Muslims to create one 'united Bosnia' because, if multiethnic Yugoslavia had to crumble into pieces, why should the Christian Serbs accept being a minority at the mercy of the traditionally hostile Muslims? Would you accept this in their place, often being the sole survivor of a large family?
Another point: Everybody started his history from paganism. Nobody is 'guilty' or 'not guilty' for changing their religion. The point is that in this precise case it was a political decision. When they converted to Islam they abandoned even the notion of being Serb. For them, to be called 'Serb' was an insult. Did I call them Turks? I don't remember this but it will be alright. In the Ottoman empire they certainly considered themselves Turks. One has to consider himself something, religion is not nationality. Under Communism they were obliged to choose between being either Serb or Croat. Even in the same family one brother might be a Serb and the other Croat.
About Jasenovac I hope that you'll get the information from Vagabond's readers.WM
Balkan area is a crucial center in Europe and from there started the first and second world war. So if United-States 'par le biais' of NATO is proceeding to a military intervention over there it's only because since the EURO currency came out in January the US Dollar will have a serious opponent.
Everything happening in Serbia is influencing all Europe so the interventionist politic of the U.S over Serbia is only due to the fact that if they get influence over Serbia they get influence all over Europe and by that way the Dollar will maintain it's supremacy over the Euro currency.
I hope you're not really thinking that NATO countries, Pentagon and the White House are really concerned about the Kosovars or old fashioned ethnic troubles over there. United-States is using NATO to preserve the influence it gained over Europe after the Second World War. They did nothing when the Kurds were slaughtered by the Turkish because first Turkey is a NATO country and second there is no strategic influence to acquire from any intervention in that area of the world. It was the same thing with the Rwanda slaughter which was 10 times more horrible then what's happening with Kosovars.
So what the intellectuals are thinking or not thinking, that does not
prevent the CIA, the Pentagon, the deciders to sleep at night.
Frederic Desjardins from Montreal Quebec Canada
PS: Sorry for my English my first language is French.
One disagreement; WW2 didn't start in Balkans WM
My friend thank you for your analysis. I would like to add some thoughts:
a) the Kosovo-99 is just "the easy end of a ten year war that started in Kosovo, it is not too casual?"
b) why the Pope, Austria and Germany that have been so helpful for ten years are now the "fathers of the peace process?, strange...
c) Why the Westmarket allowed the break of Yugoslavia but not Bosnia, being based on the same groups?
d)Vietnam was stopped by public opinion, would you start a war without the Kosovo "cleansing affair"?
e)Why the west uses the word ethnic? is it not because there are not real differences among the yugo-tribes (but Kosovars) strange isn't it?
f) Kosovo I think is the sandwich invented to start and finish the war in a cleaner way, to hide the absurdity of the middle - genocide against the south Slavs in general.
Thank You again.
Your points (a) and (b) are not clear to me. WM
Serbs of the world unite against the Anti-God NAZI bill clinton. This is the first step in the NAZI alliance between bill clinton, tony blare, and the Germans. If they win this one the next step will be attacking Christ. These people do not want the world religions.
The way to fight back is to write upon the US currency "Nazi bill clinton". Don't capitalize, he does not deserve that, he cheats young women. If everybody votes by doing this; the rulers will see the true concern of the people.
This is actually a fight for the right to
worship Christ as the Lord.
I can see that causing destruction is not very intelligent
but what are you trying to get at, that assholes like
hitler and stalin were "dumb", had low IQ (not that solving
a bunch of bullshit puzzles makes you more intelligent
If you look at the October 96 issue ("October's Glance") and the April 96 issue ("What Do I.Q. Tests Really Show?") you will see that I am not a fan of this I.Q. subculture. I find that "The Devil is Stupid" makes an interesting point about the Devil's psychological profile. It is also an optimistic view that the Devil can't dream of ultimate victory. WM
Have added your link to our News and Politics page.
I am going, with your approval, to include a link to your page in the
next edition of the 'netography'.
Laingholm, Titirangi, Auckland, New Zealand
e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org OR email@example.com
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